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	<title>Comments on: The Future of Programming: Ignorance and Superstition?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.loper-os.org/?feed=rss2&#038;p=41" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41</link>
	<description>Because Computing Doesn&#039;t Have to Suck.</description>
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		<title>By: Twitted by arosien</title>
		<link>http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41&#038;cpage=1#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitted by arosien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41#comment-60</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was Twitted by arosien [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was Twitted by arosien [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kapil Kaisare</title>
		<link>http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41&#038;cpage=1#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>Kapil Kaisare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 17:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41#comment-59</guid>
		<description>Greetings.

Can you detail the ideas you had regarding skrode?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greetings.</p>
<p>Can you detail the ideas you had regarding skrode?</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Kuch</title>
		<link>http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41&#038;cpage=1#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Kuch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 17:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41#comment-58</guid>
		<description>In an earlier comment on this thread, Dev said:  &quot;The human body is understandable today. It is nothing but a biological computer and a machine.&quot;

Oh, really, is that all?

https://www.msu.edu/~lewiska8/finalwebisp213h/images/Letter.bmp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In an earlier comment on this thread, Dev said:  &#8220;The human body is understandable today. It is nothing but a biological computer and a machine.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, really, is that all?</p>
<p><a href="https://www.msu.edu/~lewiska8/finalwebisp213h/images/Letter.bmp" rel="nofollow">https://www.msu.edu/~lewiska8/finalwebisp213h/images/Letter.bmp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Computer Linguist</title>
		<link>http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41&#038;cpage=1#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Computer Linguist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 15:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41#comment-57</guid>
		<description>Anytime you have complexity that is greater than the what people can grasp under short time constraints, you get superstitions and beliefs that aren&#039;t always correct.

One example: programmers are used to fast, memcached filesystem access on their workstations. They they wonder why their I/O-bound server apps slow to a crawl when published.

Programming has a strange tendency to form psuedo-religions around a person, company, or group&#039;s way of thinking. Microsoft is a good example here - until recently, dynamic languages were heresy to them. They&#039;re still obsessed with giving every product, class, and member name the longest name possible. And using upper-case. Upper case is typographically ridiculous in code.

Humans are creatures of habit, and naturally develop &quot;preferences&quot; of coding (and reasoning) that keep us thinking inside the box. I&#039;ve yet to see any language community that didn&#039;t exhibit close-mindedness to some degree. Obviously, those best at judjing new ideas fairly tend to evolve quickest.

@Jim

I think modern medicine is wonderful, but they&#039;re a long way from figuring everything out. The human body is one very complicated piece of architecture... several million times more complicated than our current computer technology.


To take another example of how people frequently build strong opinions or beliefs based on insufficient data - you stated that &quot;faith healing is ludicrous&quot;.

There is scientific evidence of people being raised from the dead (12 hours after dying), huge cancers disappearing without a trace, visibly, utterly blind people receiving sight, and thousands of other miracles. They happen on a daily basis. Personally, I&#039;ve had medically impossible recoveries happen to me during time span of 5 minutes.

Of course - this data likely contradicts your understanding  of the universe. So - do you modify your theory to fit the data, or do you throw away any data that doesn&#039;t match your theory? Think carefully, since religious beliefs often come in the form of popular science theory.




There are also a lot of charlatans that take people&#039;s money and pretend to be &#039;faith healers&#039;...

Most of the confusion occurs because people don&#039;t actually know what faith is. The wikipedia definition of faith isn&#039;t the faith that heals. And faith isn&#039;t something you can psyc yourself into having. God has to give faith - it&#039;s not psychological. If you haven&#039;t had it, it&#039;s rather hard to communicate. Maybe &quot;sudden certainty without any doubt&quot; would be closest. And healing requires more than just a fading faith - it&#039;s possible to consciously doubt and have the faith disappear, with no results.

Faith is also usually very targeted, such as in a certain event, such as healing, occuring. Thus it is easy to confuse with wikipedia faith.

Since faith healing has preconditions that we can&#039;t replicate at will, standard scientific &#039;experiement-observe&#039; techniques don&#039;t work. But the sheer volume of documentation and frequeny of occurences should be enough to make any clear-thinking individual reconsider his assumption that college teaches us about *all* the forces in the universe...


Anytime I think I know everything, I know I&#039;m wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anytime you have complexity that is greater than the what people can grasp under short time constraints, you get superstitions and beliefs that aren&#8217;t always correct.</p>
<p>One example: programmers are used to fast, memcached filesystem access on their workstations. They they wonder why their I/O-bound server apps slow to a crawl when published.</p>
<p>Programming has a strange tendency to form psuedo-religions around a person, company, or group&#8217;s way of thinking. Microsoft is a good example here &#8211; until recently, dynamic languages were heresy to them. They&#8217;re still obsessed with giving every product, class, and member name the longest name possible. And using upper-case. Upper case is typographically ridiculous in code.</p>
<p>Humans are creatures of habit, and naturally develop &#8220;preferences&#8221; of coding (and reasoning) that keep us thinking inside the box. I&#8217;ve yet to see any language community that didn&#8217;t exhibit close-mindedness to some degree. Obviously, those best at judjing new ideas fairly tend to evolve quickest.</p>
<p>@Jim</p>
<p>I think modern medicine is wonderful, but they&#8217;re a long way from figuring everything out. The human body is one very complicated piece of architecture&#8230; several million times more complicated than our current computer technology.</p>
<p>To take another example of how people frequently build strong opinions or beliefs based on insufficient data &#8211; you stated that &#8220;faith healing is ludicrous&#8221;.</p>
<p>There is scientific evidence of people being raised from the dead (12 hours after dying), huge cancers disappearing without a trace, visibly, utterly blind people receiving sight, and thousands of other miracles. They happen on a daily basis. Personally, I&#8217;ve had medically impossible recoveries happen to me during time span of 5 minutes.</p>
<p>Of course &#8211; this data likely contradicts your understanding  of the universe. So &#8211; do you modify your theory to fit the data, or do you throw away any data that doesn&#8217;t match your theory? Think carefully, since religious beliefs often come in the form of popular science theory.</p>
<p>There are also a lot of charlatans that take people&#8217;s money and pretend to be &#8216;faith healers&#8217;&#8230;</p>
<p>Most of the confusion occurs because people don&#8217;t actually know what faith is. The wikipedia definition of faith isn&#8217;t the faith that heals. And faith isn&#8217;t something you can psyc yourself into having. God has to give faith &#8211; it&#8217;s not psychological. If you haven&#8217;t had it, it&#8217;s rather hard to communicate. Maybe &#8220;sudden certainty without any doubt&#8221; would be closest. And healing requires more than just a fading faith &#8211; it&#8217;s possible to consciously doubt and have the faith disappear, with no results.</p>
<p>Faith is also usually very targeted, such as in a certain event, such as healing, occuring. Thus it is easy to confuse with wikipedia faith.</p>
<p>Since faith healing has preconditions that we can&#8217;t replicate at will, standard scientific &#8216;experiement-observe&#8217; techniques don&#8217;t work. But the sheer volume of documentation and frequeny of occurences should be enough to make any clear-thinking individual reconsider his assumption that college teaches us about *all* the forces in the universe&#8230;</p>
<p>Anytime I think I know everything, I know I&#8217;m wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41&#038;cpage=1#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 03:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@dev From whence springs free will out of the walking deterministic chemistry experiment we call humankind, that you opine is so well understood?  What is the nature of consciousness?

But even more prosaically, when a doctor says that I have cancer and I&#039;ve got 20% chance of of surviving 12 months, how great an understanding is that?  That&#039;s merely a description of some past observations.  Additionally, consider the maladies whose causes are listed as &#039;multi-factor&#039;  That&#039;s a dead giveaway they have no idea.

Modern medicine is a wonder, faith healing and homeopathy are ludicrous, but don&#039;t think for a minute they&#039;ve got it all figured out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@dev From whence springs free will out of the walking deterministic chemistry experiment we call humankind, that you opine is so well understood?  What is the nature of consciousness?</p>
<p>But even more prosaically, when a doctor says that I have cancer and I&#8217;ve got 20% chance of of surviving 12 months, how great an understanding is that?  That&#8217;s merely a description of some past observations.  Additionally, consider the maladies whose causes are listed as &#8216;multi-factor&#8217;  That&#8217;s a dead giveaway they have no idea.</p>
<p>Modern medicine is a wonder, faith healing and homeopathy are ludicrous, but don&#8217;t think for a minute they&#8217;ve got it all figured out.</p>
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		<title>By: rkeurel</title>
		<link>http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41&#038;cpage=1#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>rkeurel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 19:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41#comment-55</guid>
		<description>I think what is being said is that more and more, especially in the practical areas of technology, we spend so much of our time trying to reason about and work with bad abstractions instead of trying to improve the abstractions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what is being said is that more and more, especially in the practical areas of technology, we spend so much of our time trying to reason about and work with bad abstractions instead of trying to improve the abstractions.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Fairley</title>
		<link>http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41&#038;cpage=1#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Fairley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 16:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41#comment-54</guid>
		<description>It is worth as much as a primitive shaman&#039;s repertoire of magical rituals, with the notable proviso that these magical rituals actually get things done.
Certainly the reliance on buggy APIs isn&#039;t a great thing. However, it&#039;s important to note that there isn&#039;t really a fantastic alternative on offer, and that the worldwide computing system, while difficult to use in some respects, is actually very useful.
It&#039;s a bit like the remark on Democracy being the worst form of government aside from all the other forms of government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is worth as much as a primitive shaman&#8217;s repertoire of magical rituals, with the notable proviso that these magical rituals actually get things done.<br />
Certainly the reliance on buggy APIs isn&#8217;t a great thing. However, it&#8217;s important to note that there isn&#8217;t really a fantastic alternative on offer, and that the worldwide computing system, while difficult to use in some respects, is actually very useful.<br />
It&#8217;s a bit like the remark on Democracy being the worst form of government aside from all the other forms of government.</p>
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		<title>By: Rogério Vicente</title>
		<link>http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41&#038;cpage=1#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Rogério Vicente</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 09:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41#comment-53</guid>
		<description>At some point I agree with you, but fortunately there are allot of real programmers that care for what&#039;s happening under the hood.

The others, well, the others will always be second class programmers. They will always be the ones that use the libraries and frameworks made by the real programmers. There&#039;s nothing wrong with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At some point I agree with you, but fortunately there are allot of real programmers that care for what&#8217;s happening under the hood.</p>
<p>The others, well, the others will always be second class programmers. They will always be the ones that use the libraries and frameworks made by the real programmers. There&#8217;s nothing wrong with it.</p>
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		<title>By: William Knight</title>
		<link>http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41&#038;cpage=1#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>William Knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 05:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41#comment-52</guid>
		<description>&quot; Most of what passes for learning in today’s computing field is ultimately worth about as much as a primitive shaman’s repertoire of magical rituals.&quot;

Are you implying that a &#039;primitive&#039; shaman&#039;s repertoire is mostly worthless? If so, you might want to think a little more about what shamans did and why they did it. They were worked with people and extremely complex behaviors that could not be understood or predicted with much certainty. This is in stark contrast to working with automobiles and other trivial and simplistic systems.

When computer systems grow in complexity that approaches biological systems, we will see the emergence of many new and different kinds of learning and knowledge to help us deal with it. Some of these new ways will undoubtedly have lots of imprecision, uncertainty and incompleteness. That doesn&#039;t mean they will be worthless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; Most of what passes for learning in today’s computing field is ultimately worth about as much as a primitive shaman’s repertoire of magical rituals.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you implying that a &#8216;primitive&#8217; shaman&#8217;s repertoire is mostly worthless? If so, you might want to think a little more about what shamans did and why they did it. They were worked with people and extremely complex behaviors that could not be understood or predicted with much certainty. This is in stark contrast to working with automobiles and other trivial and simplistic systems.</p>
<p>When computer systems grow in complexity that approaches biological systems, we will see the emergence of many new and different kinds of learning and knowledge to help us deal with it. Some of these new ways will undoubtedly have lots of imprecision, uncertainty and incompleteness. That doesn&#8217;t mean they will be worthless.</p>
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		<title>By: Hrish</title>
		<link>http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41&#038;cpage=1#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Hrish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 04:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41#comment-51</guid>
		<description>@Al : The sad part is that, for Windows, it works sometimes :-&#124;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Al : The sad part is that, for Windows, it works sometimes <img src='http://www.loper-os.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_neutral.gif' alt=':-|' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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